You probably wouldn’t want to be genetically forced to pump out 5-10 times more milk than normal, be kept constantly pregnant or lactating your entire adult life, have your babies repeatedly stolen from you, be forced into a truck with electric prods, or be killed when a young adult – even if in late-term pregnancy, or killed even earlier if you were injured or couldn’t get pregnant.

They’re not spoiled and you wouldn’t want that life.

“Even if you wanted them to go outside… They don’t wanna, I’ve seen it with my own two eyes. There’s a 1000+ head dairy farm right across from my elementary school, and that’s how they are.”

There’s some sort of disconnect here. At the farm sanctuary where I volunteer, the cows are outside – by choice – nearly every day of the year. In fact they often wander throughout the hundreds of acres of the sanctuary – and benefit immensely from the exercise and mental stimulation. Perhaps the cows in the 1000+ dairy herd have become dispirited from having their babies stolen from them, or osteoporatic from having to pump out so much milk (its estimated that up to 50% of dairy cows suffer from some sort of lameness by the time they’re five years old), or that the ratio of cows to land has degraded the quality of the pasture, or that there’s no cool nearby woods in the summer (the sanctuary cows love to go into the woods when it’s hot out – most people are completely unaware that cows do that). Or there’s some other reason.

But please don’t get the idea that cows naturally avoid pasture. Our cows enjoy it every day. And they – not the ones in huge dairy farms – are spoiled. They get to live their normal lifespans; they get to form long-term friendships. They have plenty of space. Calves are smothered with love; they’re not taken from their mothers when two days old. If a cow is injured, she’s given veterinary treatment, not killed.

” find it hard to believe that every slaughterhouse ever beats and tortures their animals. The steaks would be rather nasty if that were the case.”

Never say never, but investigation after investigation, for decades now, around the world, shows horrendous cruelty to be commonplace in slaughterhouses. It may be a function of mass-killing day after day. As the undercover investigators and some of the workers themselves have revealed, sometimes the frustration of the work is taken out against the poor animals.

The quality of a flank steak wouldn’t be directly impacted if the animal was beaten on the head, or alive and kicking while being dismembered. But the quality of our ethics and morality would suffer. Furthermore, the meat from some animals gets turned into ground beef or bits in chicken soup; there’s no way to tell from eating the meat to know if the animal was beaten.

But there is always that chance, regardless of where the animal was raised. Factory farms are hideous, but plenty of investigations of revealed horrid cruelties on small farms also. And even a grass-fed cow on a small farm may have a horrid last ride to the slaughterhouse, and a hellish experience once there.

Furthermore, simply the way the animals are bred causes them pain and hardship. Modern farm animals have been intensively bred to grossly overproduce flesh, milk, and eggs, all of which takes a substantial toll on their bodies.

Note – I’m just arguing concepts here. I don’t think you’re a bad or evil person. I think all of us have the potential to be better than we currently are – more compassionate, more respectful, more peaceful. It’s a lifelong process. None of us should ever think we’re done with that journey.

Gary

I’m an ugly person because I hunt? Sweet, I know lots of ugly people that are extremely sadistic by your definition then. I’m not trying to antagonize anyone, just pointing out that everyone is different. I didn’t know it was considered sadistic when you don’t freak out when your dog gets shots, or when a calf gets branded. I don’t stand there laughing evilly and enjoy it, I just know that it will only hurt for a second and that they’ll be over it rather quickly, as I said… Which I believe is empathy. When I do hunt, I don’t shoot a deer in the leg and laugh as I watch it limp off. I’m not some evil person, I’m just like every other hunter I know – we go for clean kills so the deer drops immediately and never knows what hits it. I’ve never left a wounded deer or had one that ran for more than ten yards, thank you very much, and that’s the way I like it. I don’t want the cute little things to suffer.

Hehe…
And those people in your family who lived into their 90s I will guarantee didn’t eat as much meat a you do – (meat consumption in the US has nearly tripled in two generations) – nor did they eat meat that was so packed with growth hormones and other harmful chemicals as it is now.

Goodness, you make me sound like some vicious carnivore that eats only meat three meals a day and nothing else. I wonder if the meat consumption has to do with fast food places that make it readily available? I don’t eat fast food, nor do I eat a ton of meat. I eat meat maybe once a week, maybe. Sadly those growth hormones haven’t made me any taller… (that’s supposed to be funny, I’m not serious there, just so you know). Fruits and veggies are just as packed with the harmful chemicals, unless you buy organic things, which I know very well I can’t afford, and neither can my family. I try very hard to balance my diet, and I eat all sorts of food, including the oh-so-delicious cashew and sunflower seed, yum. (that’s what I’m snacking now :] )

My 90-year-old grandfather eats meat for three meals a day, every day, and has since he was a kid except for when he was in Europe during WWII. He works in his garden, shovels his driveway, and mows his lawn. He’s quite spry for his age, and my grandma doesn’t even buy lean meat, they buy the nasty stuff filled with tons of fat that I would never, ever eat, and he’s never been in the hospital except for the one time he sliced his arm open with some hunk of metal and was spurting blood everywhere.

I hate factory farms, which is why I do my best to get only local meat and dairy, and eggs. I do not know of any farms anywhere near where I live that treat their animals so horribly, nor have I ever heard of many at all that do. I always laugh when I see those dairy commercials and the cows in the pasture, because that just doesn’t happen. They’re usually inside, chewing their cud, listening to their classical music, getting cleaned up after, and getting cooled by amazingly huge fans. Change the song and man do they get stressed out. Even if you wanted them to go outside… They don’t wanna, I’ve seen it with my own two eyes. There’s a 1000+ head dairy farm right across from my elementary school, and that’s how they are. They are so incredibly spoiled. At least I think they are, I would want that life.

Maybe every farm in the entire world does torture and beat their animals and force them to do terrible things that are horrendous and I’m just and idiot and don’t see it. I know a little about butchering animals, and I find it hard to believe that every slaughterhouse ever beats and tortures their animals. The steaks would be rather nasty if that were the case.

But, whatever, I’m evil in your eyes, and you are very passionate about your beliefs and defensive of them in mine. I applaud you for sticking up for them so passionately, because I could not handle having to do so all the time. I never, ever meant to insult anyone or attack you, I was kind of hoping for a good conversation, as I saw on some of the others. I didn’t think I was being rude, but apparantly I was and I apologize. I know this is a vegan board, I can read, and I expected some backlash, and some intelligent conversation, but it seems like I can’t get it because you guys apparantly know much more than I do about everything.

So, I’m sorry.

Live Long and Prosper
\\//

You strike me as being very naïve. You say you “feel wonderful” even though you’re eating meat? Well of course you do now, YOU’RE A TEENAGER – (or close to it if you are in college as you claim). Your eating habits haven’t caught up with you yet, but they will. And those people in your family who lived into their 90s I will guarantee didn’t eat as much meat a you do – (meat consumption in the US has nearly tripled in two generations) – nor did they eat meat that was so packed with growth hormones and other harmful chemicals as it is now. Were they active people riding bicycles/working in their gardens well into their 90s and beyond as the near-vegan population of Okinawa centenarians are? I rather doubt it…..

And as for this sentence of yours:

“It all has to do with your personal viewpoints. I can kill a deer and gut it and be perfectly fine with it. I can take my dog to the vet to get his shots and listen to him cry like crazy and not be bothered. I can watch a calf get branded and not be bothered.”

…..I hope with that kind of sociopathic-bordering-on-sadistic attitude of yours that you never have children. The fact that you seem to be proud so of your lack of empathy that you felt the need to antagonize people with it on a vegan blog reveals you as a very ugly person.

I hope you can gain a little wisdom. Because whether you believe it or not your karma will catch up with you.

I rarely argue veganism on health grounds, other than to counter myths that vegan diets are inherently unhealthy.

I agree that too many people believe what’s on TV. For example, a a steady bombardment of TV commercials shows totally unrealistic happy dairy cows in pasture (less than 10 percent of dairy cows in the US currently graze in pasture), and never shows the everyday cruelties of dairy such as stealing babies from their mothers, forcing cows to produce up to 10 times more milk than normal, and killing cows when only five years old even if in late pregnancy.

These cruelties are standard practice on nearly every dairy farm in the country, and one way to find out is to ask the dairy farmers themselves, as I have done.

Virtually every undercover investigation of factory farms and slaughterhouses shows hideous cruelties. These are not isolated cases. Note that more than 95 percent of animal products in the US come from factory farms.

Plenty of cruelty occurs on small family farms, also. For example, a visitor to Polyface Farms, held up as the ideal animal farm in Food Inc., viewed “chickens in tiny cages with tin roofs in the beating sun, panting like mad…Rabbits were kept in factory-farm conditions in suspended, barren wire cages.” At the farm sanctuary where I volunteer, many times we have taken in abused and neglected animals from family farms.

Gail Eisnitz in “Slaughterhouse” interviewed ex-pig slaughterhouse workers, and repeatedly they told horrid tales of beating “uncooperative” pigs with iron rods, and pigs who were fully conscious as they were immersed in scalding water and thrashed for up to two minutes before drowning. The Washington Post did an investigation of a slaughterhouse in which they saw insufficiently stunned cows still alive and conscious as they were dismembered. The Humane Farming Association reported rabbits in slaughterhouses screaming like human babies as their heads were sawed off – and this was corroborated by the USDA’s own inspection reports.

This is only the tip of the iceberg. Investigations of factory farms and slaughterhouses have gone on for decades, around the world. Animals on farms are treated as disposable commodities. They are typically starved one to four days before slaughter because the food they would eat during their last few days wouldn’t have enough time to be converted to profitable meat. Livestock may be transported in sweltering heat for over 24 hours with no food or water. Once at the slaughterhouse, they may be confined in holding pens for another 12 hours with no food or water. Many animals die on the way to being slaughtered, and the meat industry accepts this as a cost of doing business. Multiple investigations have revealed horrible suffering during animal transport.

Many other species show reasoning ability, but even if they didn’t, it is obvious that animals do not want to be harmed. They will go to great lengths to avoid being killed or harmed; they suffer profoundly and in similar ways to us when in great pain; they have similar hormonal and biological responses to us when they are in fear or ecstatically happy, when stressed or when content.

We typically take our beloved family dogs to the vet for their own benefit. We usually comfort them as much as possible if they have to endure some temporary pain or stress while at the vet. Most of the standard cruelties inflicted on farm animals would be illegal if we did them to our pets; many would be felonies. We de-horn cows without painkillers, send “excess” calves to veal pens, grind up baby male chicks at hen hatcheries, and breed turkeys to be so heavy they sometimes collapse – not for their benefit but for profit and superficial pleasure. There’s a huge difference between taking a dog for shots and inflicting long-term harm and early death on farm animals – both in severity and attitude.

Veganism is not about health (though a well-planned vegan diet can be extremely healthy); it is not about feeling queasy at the sight of blood – you can be vegan and stoic. It is about having enough respect and empathy for other sentient individuals to refrain from inflicting avoidable harm on them. Empathy and respect for others who have the capacity to enjoy life and suffer dictates that we try to avoid harming them. Some harm is unavoidable, but other harm is preventable. If we can easily prevent harming others, why would we *not* do that?

For most of us, we can make the biggest reduction in human-caused suffering and untimely death by choosing a vegan diet. It may seem daunting at first. I used to love meat. I ate it almost every day for over 40 years. But like most other people who switch to a vegan diet out of ethical concerns, I discovered at least ten new foods for every food I gave up. My diet has never been more varied or satisfying. There is a plethora of plant-based foods out there, not to mention cooking styles and cuisines. Furthermore, veggie meats continue to improve. Gardein pairs well with rice, green veggies, and most sauces. Field Roast apple sage sausage is divine in tofu scramble or hash browns. You can make a wide variety of excellent homemade veggie burgers that leave the frozen varieties (though handy) in the dust. Indian spices and dishes are amazing. I’ve made vegan sloppy Joes, chili, and “meaty” spaghetti so many times for meat eaters who never knew the difference and asked for seconds, I’ve lost count. In recent years, vegan chocolate cake, coffee cake, and cornbread have won well-publicized cooking contests in which both the judges and most of the other entries were non-vegan. Vegan baking is actually quite easy. When it comes to diet, expand your horizons – it’s gratifying and fun!

If it’s taste and texture you’re worried about, I recommend perusing some of the hundreds of vegan food blogs online. They’re often amazing, there is every style imaginable, and the authors are usually more than happy to provide guidance. If you’re worried about nutrition I’d recommend consulting with a veg-friendly nutritionist. Or follow the guidelines at http://www.veganhealth.org.

Ultimately, it’s far easier to acknowledge cruel habits and divest yourself of them than it is to defend them. It’s liberating not only to the victims of those habits but to the person doing them. One never really regrets making a kind choice. Try a gradual transition to veganism. Think of the animal product that would be most easy to replace. Once that works out, try another. Don’t psyche yourself out with “I could never give up steak.” Take it one step at a time. You may be pleasantly surprised where you end up.

Gary

Vegans avoid foods that have explicit animal ingredients or ingredients that are animal derived (like most D3, for instance). And just because they’re not animal ingredients, doesn’t mean that they’re synthetic — often the source is just what the animals themselves get the nutrient from (like B-12 or algae-based DHA).

It’s hard to find on google because site generally come up with people bashing those that choose to eat meat. If you stick to buying things from strictly vegan sites, you should be alright.

:]

And, just out of curiosity, does veganism include the cells, or only the entire organism?

It all has to do with your personal viewpoints. I can kill a deer and gut it and be perfectly fine with it. I can take my dog to the vet to get his shots and listen to him cry like crazy and not be bothered. I can watch a calf get branded and not be bothered. I’ve been burned, and I’ve had shots, and I know that pain only lasts for a second. It was never my choice to do so, but I got over it. Animals can too. If some people, some farmers, some zoo keepers, do not like what they see, good for them, and I’m glad they made life choices that are better for them.

I may possibly feel better on a vegan diet, but I feel wonderful right now. My family has all lived to be over 90, so I don’t really see the point in changing it. In an ever changing world, there are millions of studies that contradict other studies, and what is healthy and what isn’t changes constantly. I’ve never had the flu. I rarely get colds. I haven’t been sick where I throw up in over six years. Sometimes a change in diet is required to make you healthier, and by all means, you should change your diet in order to be healthy; a lot of Americans need to do that. Personally, I would be horribly manourished on a vegan diet and I know it. A lot of the foods that you need to eat in order to get everything you need that I can just get in one little steak make me want to vomit because of the way that they taste. It’s all a completely personal choice and preference, and I realize that, and I never said that you’re wrong for only wanting to eat the stationary living things without brains, but as I said many times, it just bothers me that people think if national TV says it, it must be true and must happen on every farm ever.

To be quite honest, I’m not eating very much meat right now because of the whole college food setting. It’s disgusting, has a funny flavor, and I have no idea where it comes from, so I won’t eat it.

Exploitation is exploitation no matter what package you wrap it in. I am going to continue exploiting the animals that I am a complete and utter slave to.

I guess I just have a philosophical problem with it – supposedly what separates us from other animals is our ability to reason, and to use that reason to choose. Other animals can’t do that, so what gives them this choice ability and the ability to want? It’s hard to take a step back and look at it like that, but it’s interesting. We can choose. We can reason and choose, and we have wants, not just needs. Do other animals?

And, I was thinking about it last night… If we want a truely environmentally friendly way of eating, we ought to just eat insects. They are readily available, easy to naturally breed, and come in massive quantities in a small amount of space! :D

In an open (but well-moderated) forum like this, no one is shoving ideas down anyone’s throat. The only real forcing re this discussion is the various manipulations, amputations, killings, genetic engineering, etc. that are done to cows in the dairy industry.

When one’s intentional behavior affects others – especially in a severe way – it goes beyond personal choice. The choice of the victims must be considered.

In studies, vegans are shown to be at least as healthy as the general population, and with lower rates of some serious diseases. A well-planned vegan diet (as the American Dietetic Association has stated) is demonstrably, obviously healthy.

Most people who give up dairy for ethical reasons find that it is not nearly as hard as they thought it would be, are very glad about their decision, and find tons of foods to replace dairy. In fact, going vegan is quite often a catalyst for discovering a wealth of new and delicious foods.

Generally, once you’re no longer exploiting animals for profit or pleasure, or out of habit, you feel no need to defend it. There really is no convincing argument for inflicting avoidable pain on other beings.

All creatures want peace and freedom from harm. We cannot end all suffering and untimely death, but there is a lot we can do in our everyday decisions to lower the suffering and death we cause. Going vegan is part of that peaceful pursuit. Give it a try!

Um, sweetie? I am a University graduate, thank you very much. Is there some reason you’re being so rude? Are your arteries clogging or something? ……And for someone who is claiming to be educated you sure don’t support your statements very well. You say there are “plenty of biological arguments that disprove my theory”. Really? Well then why don’t you provide a link to just ONE of them?

And stop with your assumptions that I am getting my information from TV. I do not live in America nor am I an avid television watcher.

Just as an FYI since you obviously have no clue about what a rescue farm is like: animals are not kept “penned up” there. Here, why don’t you have a look at what goes on at one of them: http://farmsanctuary.org/ …….Gee – see what I did there? Providing a link to back up what I say? A novel approach!

And yes you certainly are a hypocrite to call yourself an animal lover. If you love them you don’t murder and eat them. The fact that you predicted what I would respond about that only demonstrates that at some level you must be cognizant of this.

For your edification, here is a link about how much healthier a vegan diet is: http://www.vegan.org/FAQs/index.html

BTW I do find it interesting that you still weren’t able to come up with ONE advantage of a meat eating diet. It was a simple challenge and it speaks volumes that you couldn’t meet it. You might want to give that some thought.

Meanwhile here are some statistics you might find interesting:

The Hunger Argument
Number of people worldwide who will die as a result of malnutrition this year: 20 million
Number of people who could be adequately fed using land freed if Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10%: 100 million
Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by people: 20
Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 80
Percentage of oats grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 95
Percentage of protein wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 90
How frequently a child dies as a result of malnutrition: every 2.3 seconds
Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an acre: 40,000
Pounds of beef produced on an acre: 250
Percentage of U.S. farmland devoted to beef production: 56
Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce a pound of edible flesh from feedlot beef: 16

The Environmental Argument
Cause of global warming: greenhouse effect
Primary cause of greenhouse effect: carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuels
Fossil fuels needed to produce meat-centered diet vs. a meat-free diet: 3 times more
Percentage of U.S. topsoil lost to date: 75
Percentage of U.S. topsoil loss directly related to livestock raising: 85
Number of acres of U.S. forest cleared for cropland to produce meat-centered diet: 260 million
Amount of meat imported to U.S. annually from Central and South America: 300,000,000 pounds
Percentage of Central American children under the age of five who are undernourished: 75
Area of tropical rainforest consumed in every quarter-pound of rainforest beef: 55 square feet
Current rate of species extinction due to destruction of tropical rainforests for meat grazing and other uses: 1,000 per year

The Cancer Argument
Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat daily compared to less than once a week: 3.8 times
For women who eat eggs daily compared to once a week: 2.8 times
For women who eat butter and cheese 2-4 times a week: 3.25 times
Increased risk of fatal ovarian cancer for women who eat eggs 3 or more times a week vs. less than once a week: 3 times
Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who consume meat, cheese, eggs and milk daily vs. sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times.

The Cholesterol Argument
Number of U.S. medical schools: 125
Number requiring a course in nutrition: 30
Nutrition training received by average U.S. physician during four years in medical school: 2.5 hours
Most common cause of death in the U.S.: heart attack
How frequently a heart attack kills in the U.S.: every 45 seconds
Average U.S. man’s risk of death from heart attack: 50 percent
Risk of average U.S. man who eats no meat: 15 percent
Risk of average U.S. man who eats no meat, dairy or eggs: 4 percent
Amount you reduce risk of heart attack if you reduce consumption of meat, dairy and eggs by 10 percent: 9 percent
Amount you reduce risk of heart attack if you reduce consumption by 50 percent: 45 percent
Amount you reduce risk if you eliminate meat, dairy and eggs from your diet: 90 percent
Average cholesterol level of people eating meat-centered-diet: 210 mg/dl
Chance of dying from heart disease if you are male and your blood cholesterol level is 210 mg/dl: greater than 50 percent

The Natural Resources Argument
User of more than half of all water used for all purposes in the U.S.: livestock production
Amount of water used in production of the average cow: sufficient to float a destroyer
Gallons of water needed to produce a pound of wheat: 25
Gallons of water needed to produce a pound of California beef: 5,000
Years the world’s known oil reserves would last if every human ate a meat-centered diet: 13
Years they would last if human beings no longer ate meat: 260
Calories of fossil fuel expended to get 1 calorie of protein from beef: 78
To get 1 calorie of protein from soybeans: 2
Percentage of all raw materials (base products of farming, forestry and mining, including fossil fuels) consumed by U.S. that is devoted to the production of livestock: 33
Percentage of all raw materials consumed by the U.S. needed to produce a complete vegetarian diet: 2

The Antibiotic Argument
Percentage of U.S. antibiotics fed to livestock: 55
Percentage of staphylococci infections resistant to penicillin in 1960: 13
Percentage resistant in 1988: 91
Response of European Economic Community to routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock: ban
Response of U.S. meat and pharmaceutical industries to routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock: full and complete support

The Pesticide Argument
Common belief: U.S. Department of Agriculture protects our health through meat inspection
Reality: fewer than 1 out of every 250,000 slaughtered animals is tested for toxic chemical residues
Percentage of U.S. mother’s milk containing significant levels of DDT: 99
Percentage of U.S. vegetarian mother’s milk containing significant levels of DDT: 8
Contamination of breast milk, due to chlorinated hydrocarbon pesticides in animal products, found in meat-eating mothers vs. non-meat eating mothers: 35 times higher
Amount of Dieldrin ingested by the average breast-fed American infant: 9 times the permissible level

The Ethical Argument
Number of animals killed for meat per hour in the U.S.: 660,000
Occupation with highest turnover rate in U.S.: slaughterhouse worker
Occupation with highest rate of on-the-job-injury in U.S.: slaughterhouse worker

The Survival Argument
Athlete to win Ironman Triathlon more than twice: Dave Scott (6 time winner)
Food choice of Dave Scott: Vegetarian
Largest meat eater that ever lived: Tyrannosaurus Rex (Where is he today?)

Did you read Krista’s reply? I’d be curious what you have to say about that since you’d implied someone that had worked on a family farm would know that it was all OK.

As I said before, which you also ignored, I’m an animal, and if you think humans are no better than animals, I’m going to do what animals do and eat what I want.

Never said humans were better/worse than other animals. We’re different. I, personally, am not concerned with what a cat chooses to eat or what a bear eats, because I’m not one. I know that, as humans, we have simple choices we can make about how we eat, what we wear, etc. We can make choices that cause the least amount of suffering possible. We can make choices that aren’t as harmful to the environment. We can make choices that extend compassion beyond our immediate surroundings.

Not true, I’m bored with this, quite frankly, and don’t feel like explaining how the human body works and how digestion works to people who don’t care.

It seems to me that you’re the one taking the know-it-all attitude. There’s plenty of literature out there to take in that discusses vegan nutrition. As a vegan of five years, I can tell you that I feel much better physically now than I did when I ate meat and (especially) consumed dairy. When I get a cold, it lasts a shorter length of time. I used to have horrible digestive issues that required medication that have completely gone away. Anecdotal evidence, sure, but there’s no shortage of scientific evidence that a vegan diet is at worst as health as an omnivorous diet and, in most cases, healthier. Shoot, even the conservative ADA has said it.

And I’m not quite sure where this “taking it in pill form” is coming from… I occasionally take a multivitamin, no magical Psuedo-Animal-Cell Pills. I really am curious about what you’re talking about… even if you don’t want to go into it, give me some terms, something to Google…

Again, I don’t think anyone here has attacked you personally. Sure, we’ve attacked ideas and arguments, but that’s what this is all about, no? As I said earlier, if you come on a vegan/animal rights site and compare the exploitation of animals in dairy and meat production to the lives they lead at sanctuaries, you better be prepared for some backlash.

Rights and morals are some made up thing by humans for control, that’s all. We aren’t born with them, they’re taught.

Cats are also omniverous. They also play with their food. What evil, vile creatures.

Bears are omniverous. They eat berries, and they eat meat. They don’t need to eat meat, how dare they do so.

I’m an animal. I’m an omnivore. I eat meat and I eat lots of other things as well, even crickets. I recommend the kind with the fake cheese stuff on them.

Just because I don’t -need- something doesn’t mean I don’t use it/eat it/want it.

As I said before, which you also ignored, I’m an animal, and if you think humans are no better than animals, I’m going to do what animals do and eat what I want.

I’m not replying anymore, and it is NOT BECAUSE I HAVE RUN OUT OF ARGUMENTS, which I’m sure is what will be said. Not true, I’m bored with this, quite frankly, and don’t feel like explaining how the human body works and how digestion works to people who don’t care.