Veganism Is Not Extreme
When I first became vegetarian a little over six years ago, it was a huge change for me. For three meals a day, I committed to doing something different than I had done for the previous 27000 meals of my life. To me, giving up meat was extreme, especially early on when I tried to figure out what else I could eat other than soy hot dogs.
After a little while, though, it felt very natural and I realized that vegetarianism wasn’t that big of a deal. And while I thought that someday I might possibly go vegan, the idea of veganism still seemed extreme to me.
When I finally made the transition to veganism, it also turned out to be not that big of a deal. Today, it seems like the most normal thing in the world to me, definitely not “extreme” by any stretch of the imagination. Yet, to anyone else that hasn’t made the transition to veganism, whether omnivore or lacto-ovo vegetarian, it still seems very far “out there.” The phrase “vegan extremists” is not terribly uncommon:
“Fish is a great source of protein and it’s one of the few foods that almost all people will agree is good for you – except some vegan extremists – with the caveat that you have to be careful about where the fish comes from and what kind it is.” (also includes this comment from a reader: “To heck with vegan extremists! Put the fish on my plate!”)
“Vegetarian and Vegan extremists, as well as fur-haters (people who throw red paint at people who wear fur) have a heavily intolerant view on animal testing, they firmly believe that any testing is inhumane, they pass pictures of animals in torture-like devices and are very active in trying to make meat-eaters and fur-wearers feel like murderers, just because they don’t abide by the vegetarian/vegan extremist point of view.”
And, of course, the “don’t they have anything better to do” variety of comment:
“Please beware that the vegan extremists are not going to go away. Like extremists of every stripe, they want to impose their values on others. Many have nothing but time to kill (so to speak) and plenty of $$$ from a few high profile backers.”
We regard sports and activities as “extreme” if they are death-defying, ones that if performed without experience and the utmost caution would cause the average person to meet a painful end. Indeed, death itself is probably the most extreme thing that any of us will ever face (and the one thing that we will all face at some point). It’s the end of this life, and even if you believe in the afterlife, you can be sure you’re in for a drastic change when the reaper calls your number.
Likewise, we look at torture as extreme because in many cases, it’s a fate worse than death. It makes the victim wish for death as a quick release from the suffering.
If one looks at the animal exploitation industries–that is, the meat, dairy, and egg industries, the vivisection and animal testing industries, and the fur industry–a few obvious things come to light. The vast majority of the animals used in these industries undergo treatment that would be considered torture by the mainstream if inflicted upon humans: confinement, sharing cramped cages, force feeding, starvation, rape, use of foreign substances, lack of medical care. For whatever reason, when these acts are committed against non-human animals, they’re considered “standard industry practices” and not torture.
But even if agreement can’t be reached on the treatment of these animals, one thing is undeniable: 100% of them face the most extreme of extremes: death. And not a natural death that most of us hope for, but an early, painful, unnatural death at the hands of another. This death would be at best considered torturous and at worst, murder. Again, since these acts are not being committed against humans, most of us accept them as the normal part of life.
So the question at this point is, “Why is veganism extreme?” It’s extreme because it causes us to radically change how we live our lives.
But forget that for a moment. Forget any personal change required in becoming vegan (because, after all, would we consider inconvenience if it involved our next door neighbor being tortured?). Consider only the actual actions involved in a.) eating meat, wearing animal products, and supporting animal testing and b.) practicing veganism.
Torture and death are extreme. Meat, fur, and animal testing involve both. Therefore, these actions should be considered extreme.
Veganism bypasses all of this. Veganism opts out of exploitation, torture, and death. Veganism strives for compassion. Veganism is peace. Veganism is not extreme. Eating dozens of animals a year (even more if you’re into chicken rather than beef) is extreme.
Sure, we’re all still freaks for the way we choose to live our lives because it’s so drastically different than what most people do, but it doesn’t make our lifestyle extreme. In fact, it’s our very choice to abstain from animal products and the suffering that’s associated with them that makes us the antithesis of extreme.
I think this discussion is amazing and I’m so pleased it’s still active. I’ve been vegan two years this Thanksgiving. Many of the points that have been brought up are very interesting, especially all of the hate. I got some of that the very first day I went vegan during an anti-fur protest-why I wasn’t protesting something more worthwhile. I think that if I didn’t care about veganism and animal rights I probably would have a lot easier time ignoring the rest of the suffering in the world as well.
My passion for the suffering of the voiceless lets me deal with my own feelings and reactions to pain in the world. I have become open to learning about things that I love that suffer. Little by little my mind is opened to the harshness in the world that isn’t obvious in my own life. So I guess what I’m saying is veganism is one way to learn compassion. I don’t think it’s easy. It’s easy to love animals, harder to love people sometimes.
Also how do people feel about soybeans? I eat so much soy and I hear people say that “they’re cutting down the rainforests to plant soybeans”.
Thanks again for all of your collective passion.
Hi all.
Thought provoking discussion happening here!
Just adding my two pence.
To Emma: Good on you for dealing with those issues! That compassion you have is golden. Don’t worry too much about the soybean thing; remember that 80% of the soybeans produced are used in feedlots, so you’re already doing SO much more than most people! You don’t have to be perfect. It’s really good that you’re looking into this!
To Kenzan Okamoto:
Aren’t most if not all life-saving medical treatments derived from animal research? Wouldn’t millions of people who would otherwise have been dead today alive because of animal research?
Maybe, but the converse is also true on just about a larger scale, as a large amount of animal research is either useless or dangerous to human health (partly because of the huge differences between humans and other animals). There are many alternative, cruelty free, and more reliable medical practices available.
Isn’t meat, historically, throughout our evolution, part of our natural diet?
This does not justify the continued practice of it.
Isn’t it true that there was no time in human evolution where we were 100% plant eaters?
If we never tried anything we’ve never done before, what a stagnant world that would be! Besides, many societies have been, and still are, largely or all vegeterian.
Isn’t Veganism a choice, rather than a superior moral stance?
Veganism is simply one way (of many) to help reduce animal cruelty and environmental destruction. Inasfar as it achieves these goals, opposing the eating of meat is as much a “superior moral stance” as is opposing sexism, racism, murder, rape, you get the picture…
I am an omnivore. I enjoy meats/fruits/vegetables/grains. What I do not understand is those of the vegan/vegie community that eat fish and somehow that fish is not an animal/feels pain/is meat. Third plants are alive last I checked and from my experience anything living feels pain.
-Veganism is simply one way (of many) to help reduce animal cruelty and environmental destruction. A reply to this sentence as follows. I guess the increased need of farmland to produce ediable food for humans and the waste that would cause would not harm the enviroment.
opposing the eating of meat is as much a “superior moral stance” as is opposing sexism, racism, murder, rape, you get the picture…
All I have to say is that is utter bullshit. Yeah I am a spiciest but its in my survivals best interest to favor my species. Opposing a dietary habit provides you no moral suppority.
As a vegetarian, I’ve heard the “plants feel pain” argument many times before. I am also a student of botany, and this argument is specious. As has been pointed out in many other places, plants are not vertebrates, nor do they possess a brain or nervous system, which would preclude “feeling” anything, much less pain. Plants are empathic to some degree, in that they respond to various environmental stimuli, i.e. water source, light, and so on, that help ensure their survival. For example, a plant will turn toward a light source to help it with photosynthesis and the production of food. In some cases, plants may also respond to touch (ferns do this) or even sound vibration. Since plants do not form complex responses in the same way that vertebrates do, they merely react to unusual events to survive changing environmental conditions.
In any case, most vegetables and some fruits are produced on annual plants, which will die at the end of a life cycle anyway. In fact, most vegetables and fruits are seed pods that are meant to be eaten by animals so the seeds will be dispersed and the plant propagated. In modern agriculture, this is replaced by replanting with seed stores instead of using the fruit for this purpose. The exception to this are root or leafy vegetables, who propagate via their flowers, or tree fruits where one doesn’t have to kill the tree to eat the fruit.
Even if you accept the “plants feel pain” argument, the fact is that if you stopped livestock production entirely you would save many edible plants that are used for feed for these animals. The majority of corn production in the US, for example, is used to feed livestock. As has been pointed out in “Diet for a Small Planet” the food and water used to create one pound of beef could feed many families.
I don’t regard being a vegetarian as being morally superior to meat eaters. In fact, it is a humbling experience to realize that you are not superior to other animals and I often kick myself for being a meat eater in the past. Some of the pro-meat-eating comments reflect the age-old belief that animals are merely “dumb” and are meant to serve only human beings’ survival. Some justify it by saying that they just like to eat meat, like the taste of it, and this is the reason the animal has to die. For something as trivial as your taste buds.
I don’t quite see how opposing rape, murder and racism can be a ’superior’ moral stance… but maybe that’s just me. I don’t see being vegan as a superior moral stance either, it’s a stance, a choice of how to live your life. I am sure some vegans do feel superior to non-vegan, just like some Christians feel superior to Muslims (or vice versa), some people who have been to Yale/Harvard/Oxford/Cambridge see themselves as superior to people who haven’t been there, some people with high-flying positions feel superior to everybody else etc. This doesn’t mean that being vegan is the problem, but that some vegans are as separatist and ‘holy’ as anyone else who has ever taken a stance on anything in life.
A plantbased diet is actually the most ‘earth-efficient’ diet there is – apart from a hunter/gatherer diet. As sternwood pointed out meat and dairy production requires much more food and land than a vegan diet does. George Monbiot, a British climate change etc. debater, points out in an article from 2002 that the West cannot continue consuming the amount of animal products that we do now and feed everybody in the world. I think the problem will continue to become more urgent as the world population grows.
Many people in the developing countries are vegan, not by choice, but because this is how they can afford to eat.. many more don’t have enough to eat full stop. Many are also in a situation that they have to rely on some animal products and meat simply to survive. In the west we are spoilt for choice when it comes to eating – & many many people eat in excess or foods that don’t actually feed their bodies.
So seen from that perspective being vegan is actually also specicism… it is in the highest interest of the whole of humanity, not just the few of us who are lucky enough to live in a part of the world where most people can afford to choose what they eat… So since we have the privilige to choose, this is what many people have done, just like many (more) people have chosen to carry on eating the way they always have done.
Very well put – btw, perhaps I should have clarified by saying Opposing eating meat is as much or as little a superior moral stance as (those other things)…
Has anyone bothered to find out if becoming vegan really contributes to saving the environment and feeding the poor? I am just a month into cutting down my meat intake (I aim to be a vegan) but I need to know. The two biggest reasons for vegetarianism is that it help save the environment (by reducing farming pollution) and it helps poverty because eating less meat means…(less meat farms? more grain with no animals to eat them,and)..more grain for the poor in third world countries.. Where’s the link? How did being vegan constructively help the poor? Are there any statistics that I can get which shows that going vegan has helped the poor in Africa?
I just feel that the chain of logic is too long. Are meat farms declining? Are the excess grain being given to the poor or just dumped back into the sea to pollute it? Is anyone doing anything to make sure that all these ethical concerns that vegans are known for, really take effect or are they just words with no meaning?
I hope I didn’t sound too harsh, but I’m confused and i need help. ^_^
Argh, someone brought up the “they might prefer to exist and get eaten than to never be born” argument. If being born is so vastly preferable, we should never neuter our pets, because all the kittens euthanized at the pound are totally lucky to have been born. Also we are morally obligated to produce as many children as we possibly can, because otherwise we are denying them being born! Crap, I better go get pregnant right now!
Hello Everyone. I read this entire post. I am a firmly believe that veganism ,like religion and politics, should not be discussed. I just keep it to myself. Most of people, not all are trying to defend and fight there beliefs. Why? Stop! Enough!
sorry for the grammar…lol…Gog!
vegan rican: I’ve been able to convince quite a few people to reduce their animal product intake by discussing veganism with them. I know many others have had that same experience.
Yes, you get some resistance when you do that – it’s natural for people to defend their lifestyles and to avoid cognitive dissonance – but I’ve found that the more I discuss the subject, the better I become at responding to those defenses while keeping the other person engaged and the conversation friendly and productive.
Of course one has to be respectful of others: we don’t know exactly what it’s like to be them, and everyone has their fears and unique experiences and hot button issues. Nonetheless, it is possible to persuade people to make changes to their lifestyles in a civil and cordial manner.
Sometimes it helps to be patient. For many people, giving up meat, dairy, and eggs at first sounds impossible and off the wall. It often takes a while to acknowledge that what we eat is largely arbitrary and the result of habit and taking the path of least resistance, and that one can have a perfectly satisifying, diverse, and healthy diet without eating flesh, milk, and eggs.
So by discussing veganism – and animal rights and all those related issues – with others, I’ve been able to reduce the amount of exploitation and human-caused animal suffering in world.
If you never inform others about veganism, the violence in slaughterhouses, and the moral transgressions inherent in killing animals for pleasure, they may remain ignorant and avoid thinking about those topics their whole lives, and never change. That’s a missed opportunity. Often, one conversation, or one book that you lend someone, can make a profound difference.
Granted, not everyone feels comfortable doing one-on-one outreach, or even writing letters to the editor. But there is probably some form of activism for everyone; perhaps for you it’s handing out veg restaurant guides or vegan starter kits, or urging your city council to ban rodeos, or requesting that your school cafeteria provide more vegan options – or starting a petition to do that – or simply sharing delicious vegan food and recipes with friends and co-workers.
For more ideas and a compelling explanation of why your activism makes a difference, check out “Striking At The Roots” by Mark Hawthorne.
actually, veganism is the morally superior position.
i think most people would agree that animals, if given the choice, would rather not be enslaved and eaten. the only morally acceptable reason for subjecting them to this would be if it were somehow necessary for own survival, much the same way killing of another human can be excused if it is in self defense or defense of an innocent person, but millions of healthy vegans (i can provide lots of accounts if needed) are proof positive that one can thrive without any animal foods. here’s the moral argument laid out:
1. If eating animals is necessary, meat eating is not immoral.
2. Eating animals is not necessary.
3. Therefore, meat eating is immoral.
this argument is both valid and sound.
imho, making the morally superior choice is required of all responsible, educated, sensitive human beings :).
~erin
I am sorry, Erin, your argument is flawed. Check out http://www.fallacyfiles.org/denyante.html.
I would be more inclined to listen to an anti-vegan argument if the sources quoted weren’t all from Wikipedia.
Just a thought.
I’ve been a vegetarian (and I must shamefully admit that for a while, I was one of those idiots that called myself a vegetarian even though I still ate fish) for thirteen years and only fairly recently made the transition to veganism. For my part, I find preachy vegans (despite the fact that I agree with them on moral grounds) just as annoying and pretentious as people who are fanatical about their religion. Whenever I feel like being all “vegangetical” (thank you veganfreak.org for that wonderful term), I first think about how I would feel about someone trying to force their religious views on me. Not good. Not good at all.
If someone wants to discuss animal rights or veganism with me, that’s great and I’m always up for a good discussion, but I prefer to just go about my freaky vegan life… no soapbox required.
As far as I would say, don’t get offended unless you are doing anything really extreme. Don’t preach, judge, or force people to do as you’d like, and you’ll be fine.
Unless you are an extremist, and are making your dogs go vegetarian.
:/