Comments on: What’s with the faux meat http://www.vegblog.org/archive/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/ What’s “extreme” about living your ethics without hypocrisy? Mon, 15 Mar 2010 02:49:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Lindy http://www.vegblog.org/archive/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-12885 Lindy Sat, 28 Nov 2009 07:48:00 +0000 http://new.vegblog.org/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/#comment-12885 This is an old thread, but feel the need to add my pov... Actually, there are many faux meat substitutes that are much healthier than their 'real' counterpart... I'm not saying they are necessarily 'healthy' especially when compared to veggies, fruits, nuts, legumes.... but they do not contain cholesterol and the overall fat content is much less (in general). What really intrigues me, however, is the discourse on the ethical argument and whether or not it is potentially 'unethical' to eat faux meat.... I'm not sure I understand the dilemma being posed. For me it feels rather clear-cut... I do not eat animals or animal products. I do eat faux meats on occasion. I do not feel badly... I am not harming animals... and I do try and make healthy choices for myself and my family. And so what about handbags that are not real leather... or shoes... should we also forego these items as well? Because they mimic leather?? I'm trying to understand the discussion put forth, but having a difficult time wrapping my head around it....One of the least favorite things for me in choosing this lifestyle has been coming into contact with people who seem to think this is some sort of competition to see who is the 'better' vegan. I would prefer that we share our knowledge and embrace that we are all on our own journey. ...scatter joy... This is an old thread, but feel the need to add my pov… Actually, there are many faux meat substitutes that are much healthier than their ‘real’ counterpart… I’m not saying they are necessarily ‘healthy’ especially when compared to veggies, fruits, nuts, legumes…. but they do not contain cholesterol and the overall fat content is much less (in general).

What really intrigues me, however, is the discourse on the ethical argument and whether or not it is potentially ‘unethical’ to eat faux meat…. I’m not sure I understand the dilemma being posed. For me it feels rather clear-cut… I do not eat animals or animal products. I do eat faux meats on occasion. I do not feel badly… I am not harming animals… and I do try and make healthy choices for myself and my family.

And so what about handbags that are not real leather… or shoes… should we also forego these items as well? Because they mimic leather??

I’m trying to understand the discussion put forth, but having a difficult time wrapping my head around it….One of the least favorite things for me in choosing this lifestyle has been coming into contact with people who seem to think this is some sort of competition to see who is the ‘better’ vegan. I would prefer that we share our knowledge and embrace that we are all on our own journey.

…scatter joy…

]]> By: Mel http://www.vegblog.org/archive/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-11667 Mel Fri, 10 Apr 2009 22:11:16 +0000 http://new.vegblog.org/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/#comment-11667 I totally agree with Shana. While I am not against these faux meat products, they personally gross me out. I do however like veggie burgers, not allof them, but the ones that taste good. I'm not looking for something to taste like meat, just add some substance. I have been a vegetarian since I was 11, I am now 32. I find substituting meat with veggies, portabello mushrooms, or cheese always seems to please me. If a hamburger looks good to me, it's usually because of the bread, veggies and the condiments are what I crave. I understand the point of this article, but my opinion is every non meat eater has thier own reasons why they don't eat meat, so let them replace it with what tastes good to them. It's so irritating when meat eaters think I'm crazy for being a vegetarian, but I am finding that in the 20 years I've been a vegetarian, it's more common. I guess it depends where you live, but I wish restaurants would offer more meatless options. It's tough to find them in my area. I totally agree with Shana. While I am not against these faux meat products, they personally gross me out. I do however like veggie burgers, not allof them, but the ones that taste good. I’m not looking for something to taste like meat, just add some substance. I have been a vegetarian since I was 11, I am now 32. I find substituting meat with veggies, portabello mushrooms, or cheese always seems to please me. If a hamburger looks good to me, it’s usually because of the bread, veggies and the condiments are what I crave. I understand the point of this article, but my opinion is every non meat eater has thier own reasons why they don’t eat meat, so let them replace it with what tastes good to them. It’s so irritating when meat eaters think I’m crazy for being a vegetarian, but I am finding that in the 20 years I’ve been a vegetarian, it’s more common. I guess it depends where you live, but I wish restaurants would offer more meatless options. It’s tough to find them in my area.

]]> By: shana http://www.vegblog.org/archive/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-10952 shana Wed, 07 Jan 2009 03:00:50 +0000 http://new.vegblog.org/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/#comment-10952 When I see anything that looks like meat in my food, I get grossed out. Meat analogs just remind me of eating bloody flesh... However, I do enjoy veggie burgers. But they don't remind me of flesh whatsoever.. they taste totally different/ look totally different (at least the ones I buy...) than meat. When I see anything that looks like meat in my food, I get grossed out. Meat analogs just remind me of eating bloody flesh…

However, I do enjoy veggie burgers. But they don’t remind me of flesh whatsoever.. they taste totally different/ look totally different (at least the ones I buy…) than meat.

]]> By: BobG http://www.vegblog.org/archive/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-9673 BobG Tue, 06 May 2008 14:12:30 +0000 http://new.vegblog.org/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/#comment-9673 Interesting, if old thread. I have a pizza restaurant near one of the Naturopathic Medicine Universities. We have quite a few vegans who come in for pizza with veggie toppings and vegan cheese. Recently we added faux meats from Field Roast. Interestingly enough, our top seller is Apple Sage "Sausage", although we carry Mexican Chipotle, Smoked Tomato Loaf and Wild Mushroom Loaf. I would have thought that the non meat sounding product would have gone as well as the "sausage". Interesting, if old thread. I have a pizza restaurant near one of the Naturopathic Medicine Universities. We have quite a few vegans who come in for pizza with veggie toppings and vegan cheese. Recently we added faux meats from Field Roast. Interestingly enough, our top seller is Apple
Sage “Sausage”, although we carry Mexican Chipotle, Smoked Tomato Loaf and Wild Mushroom Loaf. I would have thought that the non meat sounding product would have gone as well as the “sausage”.

]]> By: cannibal vegetarian http://www.vegblog.org/archive/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-3893 cannibal vegetarian Sun, 18 Mar 2007 21:35:42 +0000 http://new.vegblog.org/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/#comment-3893 "If you don’t own slaves because it is ethically wrong, would you hire people to pretend they are slaves? (I’ll assume you said no, mostly because if you said yes, I doubt you’re a reader here.)" Hell yes! If I paid them well (and had the extra money to blow) I would have no qualms about hiring someone to fan me with a big palm leaf. Nothing unethical about that at all. There is a world of difference between actually doing something and pretending to do something. “If you don’t own slaves because it is ethically wrong, would you hire people to pretend they are slaves? (I’ll assume you said no, mostly because if you said yes, I doubt you’re a reader here.)”

Hell yes! If I paid them well (and had the extra money to blow) I would have no qualms about hiring someone to fan me with a big palm leaf. Nothing unethical about that at all. There is a world of difference between actually doing something and pretending to do something.

]]> By: Phillip Berry http://www.vegblog.org/archive/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-2687 Phillip Berry Sat, 30 Dec 2006 07:20:58 +0000 http://new.vegblog.org/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/#comment-2687 I've been waiting to get to the bottom of this thread to post my point of view, but at the bottom i've already found it, Thanks ryan for pointing out that nobodys 'pretending' to eat meat, we just enjoy being able to eat dishes that we were raised on from time to time - without cruelty. I’ve been waiting to get to the bottom of this thread to post my point of view, but at the bottom i’ve already found it, Thanks ryan for pointing out that nobodys ‘pretending’ to eat meat, we just enjoy being able to eat dishes that we were raised on from time to time – without cruelty.

]]> By: Ryan http://www.vegblog.org/archive/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-2686 Ryan Wed, 18 Oct 2006 19:40:42 +0000 http://new.vegblog.org/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/#comment-2686 I wasn't slagging -- just saying that I disagree with your comparison (though I see what you were going for). I think the problem comes in the idea of "pretending." When I'm eating a slice of fake ham, I'm not thinking, "I'm eating a pig!" or even "I'm eating a pretend pig!" Instead, I'm thinking, "I'm eating something that tastes like ham." I'm separating the taste completely from the ethics of it -- I'm not validating the "rightness" of eating meat by eating something that tastes similar any more than eating fennel seeds validates the "rightness" of licorace because they taste alike. (There -- my own off-center comparison. ;) ) I wasn’t slagging — just saying that I disagree with your comparison (though I see what you were going for).

I think the problem comes in the idea of “pretending.” When I’m eating a slice of fake ham, I’m not thinking, “I’m eating a pig!” or even “I’m eating a pretend pig!” Instead, I’m thinking, “I’m eating something that tastes like ham.” I’m separating the taste completely from the ethics of it — I’m not validating the “rightness” of eating meat by eating something that tastes similar any more than eating fennel seeds validates the “rightness” of licorace because they taste alike.

(There — my own off-center comparison. ;) )

]]> By: kitchenmage http://www.vegblog.org/archive/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-2685 kitchenmage Wed, 18 Oct 2006 19:29:51 +0000 http://new.vegblog.org/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/#comment-2685 (i hate typos that destroy meaning--the first graf was supposed to be:) Patrick, actually, I specifically said that I doubted that anyone who might even pretend at being a slaver would be a visitor to this site. So what I said was that you would not even pretend to be a slaver. But nice try at finding insult where there was none intended. Where, in fact, I deliberately went after not offending. ...and now i'm going away (i hate typos that destroy meaning–the first graf was supposed to be:)

Patrick, actually, I specifically said that I doubted that anyone who might even pretend at being a slaver would be a visitor to this site. So what I said was that you would not even pretend to be a slaver. But nice try at finding insult where there was none intended. Where, in fact, I deliberately went after not offending.

…and now i’m going away

]]> By: kitchenmage http://www.vegblog.org/archive/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-2684 kitchenmage Wed, 18 Oct 2006 19:27:27 +0000 http://new.vegblog.org/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/#comment-2684 Patrick, actually, I specifically said that I dubted that anyone who might even pretend at being a slaver wouldn't be a visitor to this site. So what I said was that you would not even pretend to be a slaver. But nice try at finding insult where there was none intended. Where, in fact, I deliberately went after not offending. Ryan,actually it was a perfectly on-center comparison. Reread it. I am asking about the dissonance between two ethical positions: eating animals is bad pretending to eat animals is good. The question was how do you reconcile those two. Nobody has come close to addressing the question. However, having been slagged here twice in one day. I'll take the hint and go away. So much for discussion. Patrick, actually, I specifically said that I dubted that anyone who might even pretend at being a slaver wouldn’t be a visitor to this site. So what I said was that you would not even pretend to be a slaver. But nice try at finding insult where there was none intended. Where, in fact, I deliberately went after not offending.

Ryan,actually it was a perfectly on-center comparison. Reread it. I am asking about the dissonance between two ethical positions:
eating animals is bad
pretending to eat animals is good.

The question was how do you reconcile those two. Nobody has come close to addressing the question.
However, having been slagged here twice in one day. I’ll take the hint and go away.

So much for discussion.

]]> By: Ryan http://www.vegblog.org/archive/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-2683 Ryan Wed, 18 Oct 2006 02:40:33 +0000 http://new.vegblog.org/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/#comment-2683 Not exactly what kitchenmage was going for, I don't think. Certainly an off-center metaphor, though. Not exactly what kitchenmage was going for, I don’t think. Certainly an off-center metaphor, though.

]]> By: Patrick Hall http://www.vegblog.org/archive/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-2682 Patrick Hall Wed, 18 Oct 2006 01:37:09 +0000 http://new.vegblog.org/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/#comment-2682 I think I've just been compared to a slaveownere... that would suggest that it's time for me to desist from participating in this conversation. Let your love light shine, indeed. I think I’ve just been compared to a slaveownere… that would suggest that it’s time for me to desist from participating in this conversation.

Let your love light shine, indeed.

]]> By: Dave http://www.vegblog.org/archive/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-2681 Dave Tue, 17 Oct 2006 03:12:12 +0000 http://new.vegblog.org/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/#comment-2681 Faux meats present win-win situations seeing that people may eat the foods that they like to eat without having to enslave and murder animals. Faux meats aren't a stand-in for real meat, they are food options with similarities and differences to so-called "real meat." Your argument about slaverly could also be used against labor of any kind. Isn't paying a wage arguably akin to pretending someone is a slave for a prescribed period and payment? What is unethical about meat is that it involves the subjugation and murder of sentient life. The production and consumption of imitiation meats does neither. You could argue it does so indirectly, but with indirect logic one can likely construe almost anything indirectly affects something else. I think the important moral issues involve real animals. If someone wants to eat highly refined products then that's a different topic involving a vastly different ethical dilemma. Faux meats present win-win situations seeing that people may eat the foods that they like to eat without having to enslave and murder animals.

Faux meats aren’t a stand-in for real meat, they are food options with similarities and differences to so-called “real meat.”

Your argument about slaverly could also be used against labor of any kind. Isn’t paying a wage arguably akin to pretending someone is a slave for a prescribed period and payment?

What is unethical about meat is that it involves the subjugation and murder of sentient life. The production and consumption of imitiation meats does neither. You could argue it does so indirectly, but with indirect logic one can likely construe almost anything indirectly affects something else.

I think the important moral issues involve real animals. If someone wants to eat highly refined products then that’s a different topic involving a vastly different ethical dilemma.

]]> By: kitchenmage http://www.vegblog.org/archive/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-2680 kitchenmage Mon, 16 Oct 2006 23:12:33 +0000 http://new.vegblog.org/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/#comment-2680 I think I'm going to run with TofURKEY as a gateway drug. Here's my argument that I didn't use in my initial post because it seemed *inflammatory*: If you don't own slaves because it is ethically wrong, would you hire people to pretend they are slaves? (I'll assume you said no, mostly because if you said yes, I doubt you're a reader here.) Then why eat soy that pretends to be meat? It's the pretending to be that which you find unethical that fascinates me. Eat soy-stuff if you like, but I still don't get the pretending it's meat. Really. I think I’m going to run with TofURKEY as a gateway drug.

Here’s my argument that I didn’t use in my initial post because it seemed *inflammatory*:
If you don’t own slaves because it is ethically wrong, would you hire people to pretend they are slaves? (I’ll assume you said no, mostly because if you said yes, I doubt you’re a reader here.) Then why eat soy that pretends to be meat? It’s the pretending to be that which you find unethical that fascinates me. Eat soy-stuff if you like, but I still don’t get the pretending it’s meat. Really.

]]> By: Alex http://www.vegblog.org/archive/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-2679 Alex Fri, 13 Oct 2006 00:30:42 +0000 http://new.vegblog.org/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/#comment-2679 I think faux meats are great. I became vegan for ethical reasons, and was thrilled to discover that I could still eat "meat" without the murder. In fact I have successfully transformed the lifestyles of some of my friends, by encouraging them to try faux meats, as an alternative to the real thing. They especially love my receipe for spaghetti and "meat" balls. I think faux meats are great. I became vegan for ethical reasons, and was thrilled to discover that I could still eat “meat” without the murder. In fact I have successfully transformed the lifestyles of some of my friends, by encouraging them to try faux meats, as an alternative to the real thing. They especially love my receipe for spaghetti and “meat” balls.

]]> By: Charles Minus http://www.vegblog.org/archive/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-2678 Charles Minus Wed, 11 Oct 2006 22:54:40 +0000 http://new.vegblog.org/2006/10/02/whats-with-the-faux-meat/#comment-2678 I am puzzled by the fact that Chinese vegetarian restaurants, or Chinese restaurants with vegie meenues serve almost entirely faux meat. It's kinda fun because they have so many choices (Dragon House in Riverside CA has oveer a hundred choices). But I have been vegetarian for so long that I reallly don't enjoy ordering chicken chop suey or whatever, even if I know it's fake. why not just get creative and come up with some new stuff? I think faux meat is mostly for new vegetarians who still crave that hamburger of hot dog experience. It's okay with me, I did it too. I am puzzled by the fact that Chinese vegetarian restaurants, or Chinese restaurants with vegie meenues serve almost entirely faux meat. It’s kinda fun because they have so many choices (Dragon House in Riverside CA has oveer a hundred choices). But I have been vegetarian for so long that I reallly don’t enjoy ordering chicken chop suey or whatever, even if I know it’s fake. why not just get creative and come up with some new stuff?

I think faux meat is mostly for new vegetarians who still crave that hamburger of hot dog experience. It’s okay with me, I did it too.

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