Classifications of Vegetarians

If you’ve made the connection between fur, etc. and cruelty, what’s keeping you from giving up seafood?

It’s a journey, and I do plan to get there eventually. I know fish have feelings, anything with a central nervous system does. My consumption is minimal, but I still feel guilt about it.

My husband is a carnivore, but I got him to agree to no meat (other than seafood) in our house or anytime he is with me, but he’s always been a seafood lover, and I could NEVER ask him to give that up. I feel he’s done more than most would for me, and that’s why I deal with seafood occasionally, though my guilt keeps me from really enjoying it.

Everyone has reasons behind there choices, that’s why we should support and encourage, NOT discourage and call names.

And BTW – the 12 skater vegans that I am exposed too all buy new leather skate shoes almost monthly, they’re not “grandmothering-in” new skate shoes, they are going to the store and buying them brand new.

Purchasing new leather products and eating seafood are both supporting animal cruelty. So who are they to judge me. It’s that old saying about living in glass houses, you know!

Everyone could be better, nobody is perfect.

Hmm…Have been veg for almost 20 years and it seems there are many more deifnitions nowadays. I find that as time moves on, the label becomes less important and the life attitude more binding between folks. I have had many a meat-eater try to label me, and it is no mpore irritating than when a veg does. I think that the “new-veg” – a label I have for the young veggies who have so many more options now than there were in prior years – there is a lack of understanding why the distictions arose. Many of the pseudo-veg titles came when it was nearly impossible to find veg options and REALLY REALLY hard to find tofu – not jsut at a restaurant but anywhere in an entire city. So some people opted to reduce their meat intake, to not eat red meat, or restrict their meat in some way. These people made life choices that they have since stuck to for decades for their own reasons, but often with reasons common to all veggies.Don’t be hard on em – encourage them to be conscious eaters!

Also, I know of one man who only eats “happy meat” – meat that has been able to run free and that he has hunted humanely. He is no trophy hunter, just a man who likes to know where his food comes from and hates what animals in faarms go through. Also he hates the impacts that farms have on forests. You may discagree but I appreciate his view more than I do many full-on vegetarians.What would you label him?

Well, I’ve recently gone vegetarian but I still eat bivales (seafood creatures with no brains like oysters). I’m sorry but no brain and you’re fair game. It’s like eating another version of a plant. But I’m not going to eat clams muscles and oysters everyday so it’s rare. I don’t feel guilt. And I don’t feel guilt using the label ‘vegetarian’.

Okay all, I reading these postings after having a lengthy discussion with my younger brother. He just turned ten two months ago and has been a “pesco-vegetarian” for about three months now. He made this decision of his own accord, seeing how dedicated I am to the plight of animals in our society. My journey toward a more caring and healthier way of life came by influence of my aunt who has enjoyed a vegetarian lifestyle for over half her life.

Here’s the problem:

We had fish for dinner tonight which my brother and I both enjoyed which caused questions to arise, naturally, in my curious and sensitive little brother’s mind. So I say to him, “there are many different types of vegetarians…let’s hit the internet to find out what we should call ourselves.” So I find this website and read a rather scathing defition from an obviously very self-absorbed blogger.

Get over yourself please, and also, you Ryan. Always with a quick remark to cut someone down who is obviously trying very hard to understand vegetarianism, veganism, and other “isms” that may be applied to them and others. Please just be content with knowing that these people are not coming here to say, “Hey Carnivores all the way!!!” They are coming to ask questions and learn and be informed…and most of all, supported!

My point here is that no one is perfect. I’m sure many of you stricts out there have unitentionally bitten into something filled with meat at some point during your vegetarian journey. I would not likely say to you, “You’re not a vegetarian anymore” neither would I say to someone his is trying to cut things out “you’re not a vegetarian at all, you meat-eater!”

Try to be sensitive and get over the labels. Making choices such as the ones that most of us have or are in the process of making is not easy. Vegetarians and vegans and any other classifications of such should hold eachother up and offer helpful stories, experiences, and alternatives instead of isolating eachother and holding “stricts” to a higher regard.

I was very disappointed in some of the closed-minds represented on this website…especially as my impressionable brother read over my shoulder. He now feels that all of his efforts at being friendly to animals, not eating beef and chicken, and saving insects from being squashed in the road are in vain because he can no longer say to inquiring fifth graders that he is a vegetarian. I’m sorry that I brought him to this blog and I’m also extremely sorry that there are vegetarians out there that are so concerned with keep the title exclusive to the strict vegetarians that they become rude and unsupportive.

And by the way, are those eggs that you consume a product of cage free hens fed on grain feed? If not those chickens probably suffer more in life than they ever would in death…same goes for the cow milk industry which regularly feeds its cows parts of other cows and engages in other unnatural and abusive practices. To me it’s all the same. Suffering is just as awful for the animal as the slaughter.

Oh, and one more thing…do you support Relay for Life? Because all the money you help to raise goes toward companys who do cancer research. This research, more often than not, includes animal testing which isn’t even necessary.

I just had to vent because my brother is now very upset. I am too. In my eyes, he’s still a vegetarian…no matter what.

Jess, the reason veg*ans get upset at folks who eat flesh foods calling themselves vegetarian is many of us don’t want someone assuming we eat DEAD ANIMALS because some hypocrite calling himself/herself a vegetarian eats the stuff. It’s not that we enjoy separation from the norm (well, some of us do), but that we believe eating animal products is wrong.

BTW, last time I checked eggs and milk/cheese didn’t grow on trees either, so it seems vegans are the only ones to have the right to call themselves vegetarians if we are going to get picky about it….

i don’t like being labelled under any circustances.
and the simple fact is that my choice not to eat red
meat, chicken ,or pork is a matter wanting to make changes in the way i treat my body.i am who i am, that is it. who are you or any one else to tell me who i am ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I too can’t see the problem with the term ‘pesco’, I go to all extremes to avoid all meats (with the exception of fish – which is flesh, not meat) and all animal by-products. I use vegan shampoo, soap, bleach type products, washing powder, you name it and i use it. Some may say I’m hypocritical but when the only thing i eat is a small amount of fish for the oils that it provides, and i go to extreme measures to make sure the fish i eat is, not farmed (eg farmed salmon), is wildlife friendly (eg dolphin friendly) and is widely availabe (fish such as cod i would never dream of eatting!), i think i deserve the term pesco-vegan. I only eat organic fruits and vegetables and buy my clothes only from distributors i know use only organic cotton! If i were to go into a restaurant and ask what on the menu was suitable for me it would take a long time to explain that i cant eat anything cooked in animal fat, i cant have milk or eggs but i can eat fish, when i tell people im a pesco vegan they understand me! Maybe if there was a specific ‘label’ (as horrible a word that is) for people such as myself that was comonly know then i wouldnt have a problem with using that but, as it stands, i am a pesco-vegen and very proud of it, because look at the big picture and i do a heck of a lot more to help the environment than a lot of people!

i eat the fish because i know it has a lot of got nutrients and oils in it, if i knew of an alternative then i would use that, i eat quorn regularly as meat substitute and dont mind that but there doesnt seem to be an alternative to fish.

is it really? i never knew that! is there a vegan alternative?

Vitamin A, vitamin D, the high protein content, Iodine, selenium, phosphorus, potassium, iron, calcium
and the omega3.

Hi Kiri,
Fish doesn’t contain vitamin D. Vitamin D comes from the sun or is an additive (like in milk). Vitamin D can be found in a vegan diet from the sun (15, minutes of daily sun exposure should do the trick, unless you live in a northern climate) or from fortified non-dairy milks.

Vitamin A can be found in red and orange colored fruits and vegetables such as carrots, tomatoes, watermelon, red peppers, and sweet potatoes.

Iodine can be obtained by using iodized sea salt or incorporating sea vegetables into your diet. I like to add a big chunk of dried kombu to soups and stews while they are cooking (then I take it out before serving) or having vegan sushi with nori.

Selenium is found in almonds. I know there are other vegan sources, but my mind is drawing a blank.

Potassium is abundant in almost all fruits and vegetables, kiwi and banana especially. I don’t love bananas, so I hide them in my smoothies in the morning.

Iron is found in dark green leafy vegetables. It is absorbed more readily sometimes (like spinach) if eaten with citrus/vitamin c. Quinoa is also a good source of iron, as is molasses.

Calcium is found in sesame seeds, quinoa and fortified non-dairy milks and fortified orange juice.

Omega-3 can be found in flax and hemp seeds, as well as various legumes and seeds (in smaller amounts). I get my omega-3 dha from an Udo’s oil blend that has DHA from algae. I add it to my smoothies (you can hide a lot in there!)

All of the vitamins and minerals listed above can be found in a vegan multivitamin. I prefer to get my nutrients from foods, but I do use a multi as a back-up (especially for my kids, it’s like insurance).

Protein is in almost everything. If you’re eating a varied diet (with fruits, veg, grains, legumes, nuts and seeds) you are definitely getting enough. When I want something high protein at the moment I stick with legumes and nuts/seeds. A handful of pumpkin seeds often hits the spot.

Hope this helps!

Hello,

Right, well, I’ve read everybody’s argument.

I first made the hardest decision of my life – to become a Lacto Ovo Vegetarian – when I was 14 years old (I’m 20 now). I object whole heartedly to the slaughter of Animals for their flesh; I find the way they keep the animals repulsive and disgraceful. One day I decided to cut meat completely out of my diet – and it was gone. I’d never felt better about myself.

But approx. 1 year later, I found myself getting very tired, very easily. I couldn’t perform even the simplest errand (for example, walking to the shop) without getting tired. I found myself becoming poorly every week with colds, flu, stomach flu’s… I was really ill. I saw my Doctor, and he told me that because I had such a strict Vegetarian Diet (I cut out everything except eggs and milk) I had become Anemic (which is caused through an Iron deficiency). I was put on Iron supplement tablets – these made me sick. I was losing more vitamins than I was trying to put into my body, and not only was I losing the Iron supplement, I was losing what was left of the small amount of Vitamins I had in me through pulses and beans.

I was desperately unhealthy. I had no immune system to speak of (through lack of Vitamin B-12 and Omega 3)

My GP cornered me on my diet – it had been unregulated, therefore I didn’t know what severe consequences of a diet of this kind could do to your body. So I started to have a once-monthly intake of Dolphin – Friendly Tuna, and then this ‘dosage’ was increased to at least twice a month. I also had to drink a glass of B-12 Enriched Soy milk. After about a year of this, (and also finding a Vegetarian Vitamin Supplement – 2 Omega 3 Fatty Acids Tablets [Named Eye-Q in the Shops] and Vegetarian Multi-Vitamins Supplement), I am pleased to report I am in full Health again, and I have not cut Tuna out of my diet.

However.

I want to ask the advice of you people; since you all have solid opinions and grounds for the opinions you share.

How can I cut fish out entirely? What would you recommend I supplement it with? I simply cannot allow myself to slip back into the state I was in, although it seems a long time ago I’m frightened it will happen again. Although I do simply feel disgusted to have to consume fish on a regular basis. This is the truth.

Many people ask me “well, if you feel disgusted, why do you eat it?”

The answer is – for the good of my health.

As a poor student, I simply cannot afford to be able to cook well proportioned Vegetarian meals every day with equal amounts of Vitamins – I don’t have the money, or time with being on a full time Law Course. My University also does not offer a well balanced Vegetarian Meal option, either.

So I ask you; I want to cut fish completely out of my diet, but my GP, dietitian, my mother and indeed myself cannot allow me to simply through Health issues. Can anybody give me good supplementary advice for this?

And also, in response to your arguments about true Vegetarians and Pescetarians…

The majority of the Pescetarians (or Pesco-Vegetarians) I have spoken to have made the choice to include fish in their diet for health reasons only. Do you find this selfish? Do you find this wrong?

I feel that Pesco-Vegetarians have the right to include “Vegetarian” in their diet definition. I feel that it is much easier for them to define themselves like this for the following reasons;

1. Like somebody has already said; it is easier to explain to people (for example waiters, special dietary requirements sheets) about their dietary requirements. “Pesco” (or “Pisco”) is derived from the Latin term “Fish”, as “Pollo” is derived from the Latin Term to mean “Chicken”. So, calling yourself a “Pesco-Vegetarian” is logically, if not ethically, correct.

2. True Vegetarians argue that people who call themselves Vegetarian, but supplement their diet with Fish, cannot call themselves Vegetarian simply because of this reason. However. These types of Vegetarian have still made the choice to absolve their diet from every type of Animal-derived product except fish – this is stated in their name. I know I’m not making myself totally clear, but what I mean is by calling them self a “Pesco-Vegetarian”, they are admitting they are not a true Vegetarian by eating fish, but yet because they have cut out everything but fish, they can still be loosely defined as within the Vegetarian Family. What I’m saying is they’re not trying to be a true “Vegetarian”, and they are not calling themselves as such.

3. Vegetarianism is a way of life, an ethical choice. Vegetarians of all different shapes or sizes should unite together and help each other through the difficult task of becoming a Vegetarian, and helping others take the first steps forward in becoming Vegetarian. We can’t fight amongst each other for the right to use the name Vegetarian; all we can do is air our views and encourage others to take what we say on board. Please don’t discriminate against others, no matter what type of Vegetarian you are – it makes others feel that their ethical and moral choices are worthless in todays society, and that their first efforts in making the right decision, to protect our animals, has no meaning. Give them some credit, and allow them to have their title; after all – doesn’t this also give people an incentive to become full Vegetarians? And also, wouldn’t it encourage people more to join in the Vegetarian community if we weren’t all bickering with each other about titles?

Some people like to define themselves; that’s who they are. And it makes them feel good to be able to give themselves a title and a purpose in what they’ve chosen to do.

Sorry for the long winded response. :) I applaud you all in your dietary choices, and good luck!!

Hey Patricia…

Quorn is an excellent alternative to chicken. Why not go to your Vegetarian frozen food section in your local supermarket? This is where you’ll find most of your Veggie Alternatives.

The Vegetarian alternatives are so wide now… you can get Veggie bacon, sausages, burgers, apple burgers, chicken flavoured pieces, chicken style pie… it is not difficult to cut meat out of your diet!

Also, try the cooked meat section of your supermarket. There, they sell Quorn Ham, chicken and beef style slices, along with Veggie Cottage Pie, Lasagne & Veggie Mince! There’s so much you can do… going Veggie has never been easier!

I’ve been a Lacto-Ovo Vegetarian for a good number of years now (I’m 20 now) and my family are still firm meat eaters. If your family choose to try your alternatives, then it’s up to them… but please remember, choosing the Vegetarian lifestyle when your family are meat eaters is not forcing your beliefs on them. You must do what you think is right for yourself – take no notice of the people who put you down!

Also, if you’re thinking of turning Lacto-ovo, Lacto or any other type of Vegetarian, I’d recommend a good vitamin supplement, for example Flaxseed Oil tablets with Omega’s 3,6 & 9 and a good Multi Vitamin Tablet. These will ensure you don’t get any problems with Vitamin deficiency. It is not medically proven that Vegetarians need Vitamin supplements in their diets, but it’s always better to be safe. But with these vitamins… make sure you don’t get fish oil! Because remember – Vegetarians don’t eat fish!

Yes, you’re absolutely right. Non meat diets are delicious and healthy, guaranteed to make you feel happier, healthier, and like you’re really making a difference.

I don’t really care about labels. I eat fresh caught fish but nothing with feet. I also don’t eat farm raised fish. I care about animals but I really do it for health reasons. I’m trying to maintain an alkaline body to keep disease like cancer from growing. Call me whatever you want. I don’t really care.

Nikki

Been a vegetarian for 7 years. Even living on the west coast it can be difficult with family gatherings and dinner parties, but people seem to be so much more understanding of a vegetable centered diet containing fish for some reason. I do object to the cruelty and even shy away from killing bugs much of the time. I think it’s important to live conscious of your actions, eating and otherwise, but if you’re doing harm to your own body in the process, it seems hypocritical to not eat meat out of cruelty to other animals. So I’ve been thinking about eating fish again, and after reading many of the posts above, I’m still undecided. Vegetarianism might be a good philosophy, but I think it makes a dangerous religion.

Isabelle – I believe it’s been said already, but most people (with a few exceptions, like, pregnant women or young children) need NO MORE (and surely can live healthily on much less) than 40 – 60 g of protein a day. That comes out to anywhere between 1 1/2 – 2 oz. It is absolutely important to pay attention to what you’re eating, but people shouldn’t be losing sleep over how much protein they get. I would be more concerned with my water or vitamin intake before I worry about protein.

The occasional dose of “animal-friendly” meat does not make any sense whatsoever. First of all, you’re VEGAN.* Second of all, is a 3-4 oz “occasional” dose of organic meat is going to balance out all of the soy protein you’re eating in the meantime? Am I the only one who doesn’t follow the logic here? It is things like these that makes me think the whole welfare idea is pure BS. It’s not reducing the suffering of animals, it’s brainwashing at its finest to get people to feel okay about eating meat and eat more of it. I hope you (or anyone else in the same position) sit down and think about why you became vegan in the first place, and perhaps you can find the motivation to learn enough about nutrition to create a healthy diet that reflects your moral beliefs.

*This is why we want to keep the words “vegetarian” and “vegan” true to their original meanings. I’m not saying that whatever diet you’re following is not relevant or not making any difference. What I don’t understand is why people are fighting so hard for a label that doesn’t even describe them properly. Sure, many people might not be familiar with “pescetarians” – so, educate them about it. Don’t borrow another term because it’s easier. Saying you are a pesco/pollo vegetarian is like saying you are a Catholic Muslim. You can’t be both. It’s not about us being superior, but about being able to accurately describe our own philosophy.

I agree that reducing meat consumption in any possible way is the important thing, but I don’t think I agree that being generous with the word vegetarian is likely to encourage less meat consumption. I think, human nature being what it is, that letting people call themselves whatever they like is more likely to result in their eating whatever they like.

But good for you for focusing on the real issue: The impact that this what-do-I-call-myself question ultimately has on THE ANIMALS (and environment). I am really surprised by how many of the offended posters here focus more on their own HURT FEELINGS, blah blah blah…Man! When a vegan/vegetarian/pescetarian decides what to call themself, those are not the things they should be thinking of. I mean there are BIGGER ISSUES involved, right people?

By the way, before I recently became a strict vegetarian (I can’t call myself a vegan because I still buy carnivore kibble for my cats), I often heard derisive comments from vegans about lacto-ovo vegetarians, and it bothered me very little even though I ate eggs and milk, because I knew perfectly well they were correct. If I had tried to call myself a lacto-ovo vegan (which makes as much sense as pesco-vegetarian), the resulting comments would have been even more derisive and even more correct. So hell, I didn’t do it.

Just to expand on that, I feel that every label should encompass every more restrictive label. Thus, vegetarianism is a subset of vegequarianism (a type of vegequarian who does not eat fish), just as a vegan is a type of vegetarian who does not eat dairy or eggs. Vegequarians are not vegetarians, but neither are they omnivores, because omnivore is a negative label that does not include all more restrictive diets. An omnivore eats anything, and clearly a vegequarian does not.

To summarise in the manner of a Venn diagram:

Vegequarians = a subset of everyone, excluding all meat except fish
Vegetarians = a subset of vegequarians, excluding all meat
Lacto-veggos and ovo-veggos = two intersecting subsets of vegetarians, excluding eggs and dairy respectively
Vegans = a subset of the intersection of lactos and ovos

Of course, the diagram gets more complex when you factor in things like Flexetarianism (and Flexeganism??)
Please comment!

Kam, I understand your frustration and I share it. I am sick of being offered fish dishes as a vegetarian option.
But we also have to remember that these people who have kicked all meat except fish out of their diet are making a very positive effort and should be encouraged, not belittled – your closing comments are the sort of thing that could drive people away from our cause. They are obviously not vegetarians, but the main reason they try to call themselves vegetarian is that they have no other socially accepted word with which to explain themselves. The way to fix the problem is to encourage the widespread use of the word pescetarian / vegequarian. I know it’s not good to have too many labels, but I think the number of people in this situation is large enough to justify it.

And while I’m here, vegequarians – I think you’re doing great and you deserve all the support you can get; but please don’t call yourself vegetarian, it confuses everyone. If it’s any consolation, being able to call yourself vegetarian is not the key to being “in”; it’s just a quick label for the sake of convenience. There are many fantastic non-vegetarians around, and many horrible vegetarians. Even without the label “vegetarian”, you are a no less important part of a fantastic trend that is going to work wonders for the planet, animals, and human health. Be proud of that!

wow – so much said – I don’t eat mammals – but I do eat fish, shrimp etc – things that don’t breathe and swim in the water – I guess I can call myself “pesco” but I would rather call myself Marie

my point was – that everyone seems to have labels – why can’t you all get along -